31 replies to this topic

[XxIrishSnailxX]

I was promised an action role-playing open world game.

and I'm still waiting. I started playing the Elder Scroll series back in 1994 when they released The Elder Scrolls: Arena game for Microsoft DOS. I even bought the Deluxe edition which came with the mouse pad that's a map of Tamriel, I still use it to this day. I've been there since the creation of the series and I've been there for the ups and downs and honestly I can't take anymore. I've waited year after year for The Elder Scrolls to transfer into a new generation but it is taking too long. When Morrowind first appeared, I was excited, the elder scroll series finally broke into the 3d scene with impressive graphics. (for 2002) This was also the first game where you were able to customize your very own hero, I was speechless when I first played it. Now, in 2011, Skyrim was released. After 9 years, you would think a company would have finally created a game that is extremely impressive, but no. Skyrim is a lot like an SNES game, but with better graphics.

I've been a devoted fan of The Elder Scroll series, as you can probably tell. I've played every class, made my calves ridiculously buff and now I've slayed dragons and I can honestly tell you, I feel fucking ripped off. In this thread I'm going to try to explain to you in bullet point segments why I dislike Skyrim. Hopefully the people who are reading this have an open mind and have a little bit of understand as to why someone who has been with the series so long dislikes one of the most popular titles of the series. Welp, here it goes.

The combat system

First off, I'd like to say that I liked the combat system 9 years ago in Morrowind, It was extremely interesting to fight with swords and spells through a first-person perspective. Although doing more intricate attack like a thrust attack was hard, nothing in Skyrim is hard at all. In fact I'm willing to go out that the system is relatively broken and boring. I've played roughly 8 full days of skyrim in total and I have yet to be impressed. The main focus for a lot of fans of Skyrim was that you were finally able to wield two weapons at once or mix it up with a spell and a weapon and etc. Yeah, that was cool, if it were 4 years ago. Dual Wielding should have been in Oblivion, it's such a simple thing to add, games had been doing it for years, so why wasn't it included in Oblivion? When one of your focal points for a game is something that has been around for ages, you shouldn't be proud.

That being said I find that the combat system is extremely outdated. It is very reminiscent of the Morrowind Combat system in a bad way. Your attacks are still slow and clunky, although you can dual wield now you still feel like you're swinging a two ton elephant on your hands. Although I find the combat system to be a snore-fest, it is relatively broken. If you have a bow and are crouching, you're extremely powerful. Playing this game with stealth is the most effective way of playing and honestly that irks me. If I wanted to play Splinter Cell, I would fucking play Splinter Cell, I don't want to crouch and travel down corridors to shoot a fucking draugr in the face. I want to hack and slash him at the speed of light and rush over to the next draugr and then into a group of them. Fighting in Skyrim is so slow a text based battle will happen a lot faster, and be a lot more entertaining.

These reasons alone remind me that Skyrim's combat system is outdated. You'd think with games such as Dragon's Dogma being produced, Bethesda would take the hint and amp up the combat a bit. I would just rather watch ants raid a picnic than fight a dragon in skyrim.

NPCs

The NPCs in Skyrim are as dumb as a sack of rocks. You can put a basket over their head, steal everything in the room, take the basket off and treat you like nothing just happened. Though I do feel it reflects their voice acting perfectly. With bone dry voice acting and horrible AI, I don't see why anyone rarely brings this up. NPCs in Skyrim suck DinoDick, simple as that. I can kill a dragon in front of a guard and they will tell me this; "Have you heard of the dragonborn? They say he can absorb dragon souls into his body! Do you happen to know who he is?" As a dragon soul is being absorbed into my body.

The NPCs are oblivious to the world, it's fucking annoying. Granted they don't have Fox News to tell them what's up, they still have forms of communication between towns. They are weak as shit on top of that. Killing a fox is more of a challenge than taking on everyone in whiterun. (except the immortal children.)

Leveling up barely matters

Leveling up blows. You're barely rewarded for your troubles in grinding to level 30+. Many of you can debate this and claim that leveling up is extremely important for you, and I can object to this. The game apparently scales to your level. This means that every time you level up, monsters and etc are leveled up as well in order to making grinding pointless. The only thing you would need level for is for a Bow's double damage in stealth mode and then dragon armor or some other armor set. The point of leveling up is to make the game a little bit less challenging but also to unlock better skills. You have no "skills" assigned to melee weapons, although you are granted different magic spells and shouts, you do not unlock those through leveling. Leveling up just allows your attacks to be stronger, in place of applying stats. It's a really great way to make leveling up a lot easier for people, but I don't like that I'm subjected to the padded trees of skills. I never dual casted fire, and even if I did why would I want to get dual casting for lighting or ice?

I understand that the astral skill tree system is suppose to allow for better customization but honestly all it does is provide a way to take me away from the fight. With so many passive skills to by from the various trees, I find myself switching between equips more often than not. This moves nicely into my next point as well.

Menu System

The menu system seems extremely out of place in Skyrim. I really enjoyed the menu system in Oblivion, but the one in Skyrim is just so slow and clunky that it takes you a long time to search for a shout or spell. A lot of the time I couldn't remember the name of the shout and when you've been exploring Skyrim to collect shouts, you'll understand what I'm feeling. Even outside of equipment, I often found myself needing to go through the inventory during battle to find a potion. Although I felt the Inventory was well organized, inside of those categories it was hard to organize things in order of usefulness or weight. Not to mention the food was fucking useless as well in battle.

Finally, Xbox getting the upper hand

We've all heard of the new DLC for Skyrim. But did you know that Xbox is getting it before anyone else? YES, The Elder Scroll series, started on the PC, is releasing a DLC on console before the PC. Does this make any sense to you guys? Why the fuck would Bethesda decide to release the DLC on Xbox before the place their game started on? granted they are both Microsoft, you would think the DLC would be for Xbox and PC. But no, just for Xbox for 30 days and then PC and PS3 after that period. What the fuck Bethesda? I could understand the PS3 thing might have been from the hacking previously and a lot of DLC got pushed back, but doing it to the PC as well? Fuck that.

In Conclusion

I had a lot of hopes for Skyrim, and I was let down. I have a couple of more reason to support my distaste for Skyrim, but I don't want to go on too much about why I didn't like it. Those five reasons should be enough to give someone an understanding as to why I don't like Skyrim. I was hoping for the franchise to finally make it into the newer generation of video gaming, but I guess it just wont ever translate well. Bethesda is still stuck in the past, I was hoping for a ground breaking game and all I got was a heart breaking one. I didn't even make a paragraph for the bugs, since I figured you all know about the bugs. These are completely my feelings and you're free to interpret them no matter how wrong you are.

Edited by XxIrishSnailxX, 30 May 2012 - 01:01 AM.

[Error]

-retracted for being a derp-

Edited by HatsuneMiku, 30 May 2012 - 01:03 AM.

[majesty327]

First of all: The combat in Morrowind sucked. Why? Because hitting someone was determined by a hit modifier, and it could take ages to kill one enemy, even if you click as fast as you can. One enemy that could be taken down with three hits in Morrowind takes 16 hits to actually hit. Not to mention the fucking Cliff Racers. Jesus ass, do I hate those fuckers. But the thing that Morrowind had head-over-shoulders above every other Elder Scrolls game was the writing and design. It literally felt like you stepped into another world. A dark, and twisted world without mercy. Oblivion greatly improved the combat, but at the price of even mildly decent writing. The AI in both games was horrible. But Skyrim is a different story. Skyrim (or as I like to call it, "Betterlivion") fixed almost every single flaw with the previous games. Combat isn't slow and clunky, they made it seem like you were actually swinging something, like it had weight. Combat was slower paced, but far more tactical. The AI was substantially improved, with enemies attempting to flank you, Mages turning invisable before running, etc. The only major problems with Skyrim was Enchanting (I REALLY FUCKING HATED THE ENCHANTING IN SKYRIM), and the fact that you're the focus of the story, "The Chosen One", if you will. In pretty much any other Elder Scrolls game, you were just a person who had a hand in the events. It showed how even the most insignificant people can change history. Not to mention that Skyrim looks amazing. Skyrim is currently the best game in the Elder Scrolls series, and literally the only reason why Morrowind isn't the best is because of the bad combat. Skyrim deserved the Game of the Year awards that it got, the developers clearly worked their asses off on this game. Also the menu is bad? The menu is fantastic. I was really tired of searching almost my entire inventory for one single item that I needed in Oblivion. In Skyrim, they spread it out to more catagories, and made it very minimalist. It's quicker, and easier than Oblivion. Also Leveling up was an improvement over Oblivion. In Oblivion, you could only pick 7 skills that level you up, and might I add that it feels very restrictive to do only 7 things to level up? Skyrim wished to do away with that, instead the game conformed to the way you played it. If you tended to use a lot of bows and arrows, you got better at archery. If you snuck up behind someone to shoot them in the back, your Sneak goes up as well. Perks I thought were a little bit uneeded, but they did add to the game. More or less what I'm trying to say is: You're an idiot.

Edited by majesty327, 30 May 2012 - 01:14 AM.

[XxIrishSnailxX]

majesty327, on 30 May 2012 - 01:07 AM, said:

You're an idiot.

Restating things I said in my own post and I'm the idiot?

k

This is what happens when you only read the bold words without reading the paragraphs under them.

But if you insist, I will clear some things up for you. I said I liked Morrowind's combat, 9 years ago. The point of the statement was that, 9 years ago The first person perspective was fun to play in and do thrust attacks.

I never said Morrowind didn't have flaws, I'm just saying that 9 years ago, the shit was good. I'd rather play something that has challenge to fight rather than something I can kill with one hit with my bow while crouching down.

The AI section is geared toward Villagers, not mobs or general enemies or even remotely close to anything related to combat. I have no idea why you brought up the AI of Mobs when I'm talking about a non-combat aspect. It's as if you were trying to prove a point that wasn't being objected. (fucking idiot is what you are.)

Menu system, I said I liked that things were in categories, if you read that you wouldn't have wasted your time writing that portion. I just wanted to organize things myself in order of usefulness. (once again, you not being able to read I suppose.) Then on top of that I only mentioned Oblivion's system because the interface tied in with the feel of the game. Not like in Skyrim where a medieval presence is there, with a futuristic and simple interface. But the slow and clunkiness wasn't really a problem for me in Oblivion, I found it easy to navigate through both, but even that being said it was still a pain in the ass.

I understand that leveling up in Skyrim is more focused on how you fight and do certain actions in the game, My problem was the lack of actual skills in the game. Instead you're given these sets of passives for each aspect of the game, rather than being able to pick up something new from leveling, you're just making what you already have stronger and more efficient.

More or less, what I'm trying to say is all you did was read the bold faced font, starting writing a hasted reply and made yourself look like a jackass.

Son I am proud.

Edited by XxIrishSnailxX, 30 May 2012 - 01:42 AM.

[majesty327]

XxIrishSnailxX, on 30 May 2012 - 01:30 AM, said:

majesty327, on 30 May 2012 - 01:07 AM, said:

You're an idiot.

Restating things I said in my own post and I'm the idiot?

k

This is what happens when you only read the bold words without reading the paragraphs under them.

I read the paragraphs under them. Let's quote them.

Quote

The menu system seems extremely out of place in Skyrim. I really enjoyed the menu system in Oblivion, but the one in Skyrim is just so slow and clunky that it takes you a long time to search for a shout or spell. A lot of the time I couldn't remember the name of the shout and when you've been exploring Skyrim to collect shouts, you'll understand what I'm feeling. Even outside of equipment, I often found myself needing to go through the inventory during battle to find a potion. Although I felt the Inventory was well organized, inside of those categories it was hard to organize things in order of usefulness or weight. Not to mention the food was fucking useless as well in battle.

Skyrim has better menus because of how fucking quick it is. That's what I said. Maybe you should've read entirely what I said then reread what you said before attempting to "Call me out". Oblivion's menu was slow and clunky as fuck, not to mention took ages to search for one item in them. Not to mention whenever you opened it, it reset you to a random place in the inventory.

Edited by majesty327, 30 May 2012 - 01:39 AM.

[Coruscantian]

I'd complain that Skyrim and debates about it are so last November, but it goes without saying. I'm not going to go into any real details, but even though I was somewhat disappointed by Skyrim after release, I can't say I thought it was a bad game, nor that I didn't like it. It had its shorcomings (as majesty said, the enchantment system was piss-poor, and I thought the AI could be clunky at some times), but it was still an entertaining experience for me.

The level-scaling bullshit was, in my opinion, a fair attempt at keeping the game to an appropriate pace so players wouldn't get bored so quickly. Once you can shrug off damage like a boss and take out crowds with a single fireball (in a combat-centered game mind you), what the hell are you going to do? There'd motivation to continue playing, and any replay value would be offset by how quickly the game loses its luster. Though it wasn't particularly successful at keeping me engaged (I spent maybe a week playing Skyrim on a consistent basis before shelving it), it was better than leaving me to get bored and sell the game once I reached level twenty-five. The whole leveling and perk system seemed fine to me, even though some of the perks were poorly implemented and underdone.

If I had one thing to complain about, it would be the main storyline: I was not interested in it at all. (You could argue that I wasn't interested in most of the stories in the game, but that's missing the point) I completed it last out of all the major story arcs I followed, and it was probably the least engaging of them all. They tried to press this whole "you are the chosen one, sent to save the world" issue, but I never once felt a sense of urgency (or any emotion for that matter) because of how nonchalantly it was done. Although the other stories weren't much more engaging, my interests were at least invoked as I was following the Dark Brotherhood or Thieves Guild quest lines. I wouldn't mind so much if it weren't the selling point of the game -- you're a badass motherfucking dragon-slayer come to save the plains of existence.

All in all, maybe I'm a bit too forgiving of the developers, but I liked Skyrim in spite of its ups and downs.

[XxIrishSnailxX]

coruscantian, on 30 May 2012 - 01:41 AM, said:

I'd complain that Skyrim and debates about it are so last November, but it goes without saying. I'm not going to go into any real details, but even though I was somewhat disappointed by Skyrim after release, I can't say I thought it was a bad game, nor that I didn't like it. It had its shorcomings (as majesty said, the enchantment system was piss-poor, and I thought the AI could be clunky at some times), but it was still an entertaining experience for me.

The level-scaling bullshit was, in my opinion, a fair attempt at keeping the game to an appropriate pace so players wouldn't get bored so quickly. Once you can shrug off damage like a boss and take out crowds with a single fireball (in a combat-centered game mind you), what the hell are you going to do? There'd motivation to continue playing, and any replay value would be offset by how quickly the game loses its luster. Though it wasn't particularly successful at keeping me engaged (I spent maybe a week playing Skyrim on a consistent basis before shelving it), it was better than leaving me to get bored and sell the game once I reached level twenty-five. The whole leveling and perk system seemed fine to me, even though some of the perks were poorly implemented and underdone.

If I had one thing to complain about, it would be the main storyline: I was not interested in it at all. (You could argue that I wasn't interested in most of the stories in the game, but that's missing the point) I completed it last out of all the major story arcs I followed, and it was probably the least engaging of them all. They tried to press this whole "you are the chosen one, sent to save the world" issue, but I never once felt a sense of urgency (or any emotion for that matter) because of how nonchalantly it was done. Although the other stories weren't much more engaging, my interests were at least invoked as I was following the Dark Brotherhood or Thieves Guild quest lines. I wouldn't mind so much if it weren't the selling point of the game -- you're a badass motherfucking dragon-slayer come to save the plains of existence.

All in all, maybe I'm a bit too forgiving of the developers, but I liked Skyrim in spite of its ups and downs.

I understand what you're saying about the level-scaling. The problem I had was really with the dungeons. I was one shotting draugrs withing the first hour of the game and I was completely disappointed. Although a lot of the mobs are scaled to your level, they actually do have a limit to what they are scaled to. (I believe that is dungeon mobs only.)

I also agree with that the story was relatively lackluster. I feel like if the game's npcs played a bigger role in acknowledging what was going on around in front of their faces it would have been a little bit better. I also think if you had chosen one side. (Imperial vs Storm Cloak) you shouldn't have been no fucks given to enter camps and not be attacked, since it was kind of implied in the beginning that Imperials hated Storm Cloaks and vice versa. It's like there was really no conflict in the game whatsoever except for dragons fucking shit up.

[Saturn_Realm]

IMO, the NPC combat was extremely dissapointing. the only challenge i got was defeating a dragon at lvl. 5 thats it.

[Loui5D]

I agree totally with the OP, the people who "bum" over this game never played the games before it; skyrim isn't like morrowind in the sense it isn't in depth.If you've played morrowind you'll know what i mean when i say i had lost all perception of time due to playing it for so long, skyrim is pick up and play and i don't like it.


nuff said.

[RollBread]

I expected a better Oblivion, not some fantastical hope the Bethesda would have a sudden urge to make a worthy successor of Morrowind and Daggerfall. It's not a question of Bethesda needing to ramp up the quality, but a dire need for people to realise that things can change; obviously things can turn for the better, or maybe for the worst.

I own an Xbox copy and a PC copy. One has mods better graphics, smother controls and a superior UI(mods). The other lags and looks like shit.

I owned Morrowind it was amazing, but after replaying Morrowind I'd have to admit that while expansive, the actual quality of the world itself took a hit. All-in-all it's a question of what you expect from content. The ol' 'Quantity v. Quality' debate. Note: I'm not referring to Morrowinds plot and lore, just the way quests tend to pan out.

Being Oblivion 2 I expected Skyrim to fix a great deal of the retarded problems of the predecessor, like leveling skills without using them for their actual purpose. While the new leveling system is streamlined, along with being very simple, it fixes most of the issues previous titles had. But being Bethesda they've fucked it up and created other issues in need of amendment. Overall the change didn't mean a great deal to me.

It was just buggy on launch as Oblivion, an unimpressive start that was not wholly unexpected. Hopefully it will get better with DLC. Oh, and who cares about what consoles get, the experience for them is still utter crap compared to PC, it is the only benefit you get from something like an Xbox.
Skyrim is average, just like Oblivion.

And last, what killed Skyrim for me, despite any thoughts stated previous, this is what stood out:

I think the hero should be more of a random nobody in future games, it is more fun when you're a random adventurer, not some Dragon slayer that everyone knows straight off-the-bat. Being Dragon born dehumanized my character, broke all immersion, so I got bored and did something else.

Edited by RollBread, 30 May 2012 - 07:17 AM.

[Loui5D]

Your told too much too soon tbqh, remember having to play like 50 hours before you've even discovered who you are?

[ThePvPBoss14]

The only thing I hate about Skyrim is the part where if you have too much things to carry you go as slow as a snail.

Other than that, the game is awesome.

[Arkeon]

I love skyrim, but some of the things in it disappoint me:

• Dragons get annoying after awhile
  
• Being "The chosen one". I hate stories like that in games like skyrim. Even though I'm still not too fond of them to begin with
  
• NPC's. I would gladly wait another year for this game if it ment the NPC's would be smarter. They're better than past games but not much better.

I probably left some things out that I can't think of... but overall this is still one of my favorite games. It would be even better if I had it on pc. (I have ps3 version)

[Loui5D]

Arkeon, on 30 May 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

I love skyrim, but some of the things in it disappoint me:

• Dragons get annoying after awhile
  
• Being "The chosen one". I hate stories like that in games like skyrim. Even though I'm still not too fond of them to begin with
  
• NPC's. I would gladly wait another year for this game if it ment the NPC's would be smarter. They're better than past games but not much better.

I probably left some things out that I can't think of... but overall this is still one of my favorite games. It would be even better if I had it on pc. (I have ps3 version)

so much better on pc, my number 1 rule when buying a bethesda game is to make sure AA as high a quality as possible.

Edited by Loui5D, 30 May 2012 - 10:49 AM.

[Matdo]

There is one main thing you got really wrong. The leveling. You said that monsters scale to level with you. That is not what happens. That is what happened in Oblivion and in Skyrim that is something they improved.

[Arkeon]

Loui5D, on 30 May 2012 - 10:49 AM, said:

Arkeon, on 30 May 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

I love skyrim, but some of the things in it disappoint me:

• Dragons get annoying after awhile
  
• Being "The chosen one". I hate stories like that in games like skyrim. Even though I'm still not too fond of them to begin with
  
• NPC's. I would gladly wait another year for this game if it ment the NPC's would be smarter. They're better than past games but not much better.

I probably left some things out that I can't think of... but overall this is still one of my favorite games. It would be even better if I had it on pc. (I have ps3 version)

so much better on pc, my number 1 rule when buying a bethesda game is to make sure AA as high a quality as possible.

Yeah I know. I saw my friend play it on pc and it looked great. The ps3 has so many setbacks... I think the next console generation would be able to handle skyrim though.

[Whoops_I_Derped]

[majesty327]

RollBread, on 30 May 2012 - 06:52 AM, said:

I think the hero should be more of a random nobody in future games, it is more fun when you're a random adventurer, not some Dragon slayer that everyone knows straight off-the-bat. Being Dragon born dehumanized my character, broke all immersion, so I got bored and did something else.

That is probably the biggest flaw about The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim. You are the chosen one. In pretty much every other Elder Scrolls game, you were a person in the sidelines, but had a hand none-the-less. Oblivion has a great example of this. You didn't defeat Mehrunes Dagon and end the Oblivion Crysis. Martin Septim did, and is rightfully the focus of the story. You? You're just a guy/gal that was the one who made him realize this.

[Nessosin]

majesty327, on 30 May 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

RollBread, on 30 May 2012 - 06:52 AM, said:

I think the hero should be more of a random nobody in future games, it is more fun when you're a random adventurer, not some Dragon slayer that everyone knows straight off-the-bat. Being Dragon born dehumanized my character, broke all immersion, so I got bored and did something else.

That is probably the biggest flaw about The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim. You are the chosen one. In pretty much every other Elder Scrolls game, you were a person in the sidelines, but had a hand none-the-less. Oblivion has a great example of this. You didn't defeat Mehrunes Dagon and end the Oblivion Crysis. Martin Septim did, and is rightfully the focus of the story. You? You're just a guy/gal that was the one who made him realize this.

In Morrowind you were a god.  I think that's more than a guy on the sidelines.

[majesty327]

Nessosin, on 30 May 2012 - 04:14 PM, said:

majesty327, on 30 May 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

RollBread, on 30 May 2012 - 06:52 AM, said:

I think the hero should be more of a random nobody in future games, it is more fun when you're a random adventurer, not some Dragon slayer that everyone knows straight off-the-bat. Being Dragon born dehumanized my character, broke all immersion, so I got bored and did something else.

That is probably the biggest flaw about The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim. You are the chosen one. In pretty much every other Elder Scrolls game, you were a person in the sidelines, but had a hand none-the-less. Oblivion has a great example of this. You didn't defeat Mehrunes Dagon and end the Oblivion Crysis. Martin Septim did, and is rightfully the focus of the story. You? You're just a guy/gal that was the one who made him realize this.

In Morrowind you were a god.  I think that's more than a guy on the sidelines.

In Morrowind, you were a person who turned out to be the reincarnation of a previous emperor to pay for that emperor's sins. Not a God. Not "The Chosen one". You were but one stuck in a chain of atonement. Not a hero.