33 replies to this topic

[Flash]

So instead of fixing Americas debt and fixing the economy we are going to build a storage house that violates the rights of the citizens and is unwanted by everyone... america for the win.

[Vosenbergen]

It no longer violates rights (well, most of them anyway, and the government has been violating your rights since the early 60s) because of CISPA.

Either way, its not like any of you have huge caches of pedophilia or illegal weapons plans or anything...most of you are like...14.

Long story short, it would also be FUCKING IMPOSSIBLE to actually do this...considering that THE ENTIRE GODDAMNED INTERNET is not located in one place as well as the fact that in order to monitor all of that absolutely huge amount of information it would require a literal army of millions of people watching it around the clock in order to actually do something with that data.  Not to mention the issue of if they do find something, how will they trace it...The Supreme Court just ruled the other day that you cannot definitively link an IP address, subnet mask, and machine ID to one person.  Also, what about Proxies? So if someone in China downloads missile plans using a hijacked IP what happens then?

Hell, the government had a hard enough time backing up twitter to the library of congress (If I recall correctly it took several days)...imagine that multiplied by 800 MILLION.  The internet isn't something you can just push a button on...it's nearly a living thing.  If somebody doesn't want something to be found they'll start a private network, link it to someone else's private network and we'll fucking regress back to the days of ARPANET before we just decide "ah fuck it, they can see everything"...well they cant monitor private traffic directly to and from servers not linked into the already established "internet"...Resourceful people will just stop using the internet and use something that's exactly the same, though quite a bit more work intensive...

Well, here's to the new ARPANET...private networking! AWAYYYYYY

WIRED isn't stating some factual thing, its hyperbole.  Could it happen? Yeah, I guess...but it is sooooo not worth it.

FAKE EDIT: /thread motherfuckers, nobody else has anything useful, informative, or true to say on the matter.

Edited by Vosenbergen, 08 May 2012 - 03:13 PM.

[blind7125]

it is not a hyperbole, the $1.9 billion dollar facility is being built as we speak to store all of that information. Proxies are traceable, and from other things I have read the facility they are building will work similarily to what the patriot act did, it recorded most texts and call. while they were being recorded they had a system in place that actively read texts and used voice recognition when key words popped up. Please Vosen do no act superior to everyone else by calling everybody 14, some may be but the majority of us are mature adults.

Edited by blind7125, 08 May 2012 - 03:26 PM.

[Saturn_Realm]

blind7125, on 08 May 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

it is not a hyperbole, the $1.9 billion dollar facility is being built as we speak to store all of that information. Please Vosen do no act superior to everyone else by calling everybody 14, some may be but the majority of us are mature adults.

Wait everyone stop! i dropped my eyes somewhere...

[Vosenbergen]

blind7125, on 08 May 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

it is not a hyperbole, the $1.9 billion dollar facility is being built as we speak to store all of that information. Proxies are traceable, and from other things I have read the facility they are building will work similarily to what the patriot act did, it recorded most texts and call. while they were being recorded they had a system in place that actively read texts and used voice recognition when key words popped up. Please Vosen do no act superior to everyone else by calling everybody 14, some may be but the majority of us are mature adults.

I think you are missing the point that even if the proxy is traced, there is no legal precedent to do anything about it.  1) It has been ruled that you cannot definitively identify someone based on IP addresses or proxy routing alone. 2) Even if they could do something about it, what if those people fall outside of the United States' jurisdiction? They could file something with another agency, BUT OH WAIT every other major government in the world has shot down acts of this nature.  

Also, if you think that's how the patriot act worked, you are fucking retarded.  The patriot act basically said that the government COULD look at just about anyone they wished given probable cause.  I assure you, they were not tapping your grandmother's phone line or reading my text messages to friends in Germany.  could they have? sure, why not. But why would you waste so much effort on casting a net that wide.  Also text and voice recognition software (yes, even military grade software) is meh at best.  It would throw up so many false positives that if it were to store all of them in a database it would likely just be people making terrorism jokes or calling someone a paedophile.  

I'm not acting superior to you, I fucking am superior to you, cretin.

Check your facts, and get back to me.

FAKE EDIT: and just for good measure

http://www.salon.com...ingleton/?miaou

Basically, the FBI and NSA are still in the process of ASKING THESE COMPANIES to make them "wiretap friendly"...this does not mean that 1) They are going to wiretap the fuck out of everyone, nor 2) that these companies will agree to such an egregious compromise of their internal security by allowing a government backdoor, especially when black hats already have the upper hand on these companies...sure, let's give them EVEN MORE HELP, that's A FUCKING WONDERFUL IDEA.

I suggest that instead of trying to refute my superiority, you just accept it, worship me, and move on.

Edited by Vosenbergen, 08 May 2012 - 04:13 PM.

[Cowmaster]

Okay guys you realize this is just the tip of the iceberg right? I am also seeing a lot of argument about courts and legality. Quite frankly it just does not matter, here's the skinny. If you are posing a threat to the government or they think you may or they just don't like you. They can legally take you from your home torture you and hold you indefinitely. Don't believe me here, do a little research. The good news is that, with so many people doing so many things. They have to pretty much just focus on people trying to overthrow the government. I for one am to lazy to overthrow anything.

http://www.forbes.co...n-act-now-what/

Oh almost forgot Vosen is superior to all things. May the blessings of many many steaks of finest beef be brought upon you.

[Dewey]

It's all okay though, cause they banned gay marriage in North Carolina.

We're safe now.

[HappyLlama]

i hope they like super hot sweaty llama on alpaca action.

[blind7125]

Vosen it.may not be legal to arrest someone based on the information gained, but consider this. Does the united states consider safety or liberty to be a too priority? If you gave the first one a thumbs up you will see why this is an issue. Btw the patriot act's legal scope of intrusions was for only probable cause, however it was abused countless times.

[Vosenbergen]

blind7125, on 09 May 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

Vosen it.may not be legal to arrest someone based on the information gained, but consider this. Does the united states consider safety or liberty to be a too priority? If you gave the first one a thumbs up you will see why this is an issue. Btw the patriot act's legal scope of intrusions was for only probable cause, however it was abused countless times.

It certainly was abused countless times, and I would have been against the legislation if I were in the country at the time of it's passing.  And no, the US government does not consider safety or liberty a top priority...but because of that, these companies that they are asking for FBI and CIA backdoors into their security so they can be "wiretap friendly" value consumer money too much to say "yeah, go ahead and use us as a government intelligence tool, we're totally cool with that".

The abuses of the patriot act have nothing to do with the impossibility and sheer ridiculous speculation going on about the NSA fucking wiretapping the entire internet.  They are not building any facilities for it, they aren't actively recording the internet in its entirety, and they sure as hell aren't going to keep up a constant monitoring service for it.  Cause while that is a lot of data, the cost of setting up something that has a yottabyte of storage is patently ridiculous at this point.  If it's multitudes of spinning disks you have to consider drive failures, power loss, etc... If its multitudes of SSDs (which it won't be because there would be an assload of them) then you have to consider the cost of SSDs (which is astronomical compared to the cost per GB of a spinning drive)...Molecular storage isn't something science has figured out yet, so it won't be that simple either.  

While the NSA is a shadowy, behind the scenes institution, it's still run by people, and limited by the availability of technology...The facility they are currently building in Utah is in fact a data storage facility.  THEY ALREADY HAVE 4 OTHERS LIKE IT.  They still do not have the access to private internet corporations like they have been requesting.  They likely never will.  And even if they do, that yottabyte of data (which again is impractically large and impossible to maintain) means nothing without a way to sort through it all.  Text recognition and voice recognition throw out too many false positives, and would lead NSA members on millions of wild goose chases EVERY DAY.  It's entirely too inefficient to sort through all the false positives for real usable data, so even if they do manage to store all the information, it will be sitting in a big building in Utah doing ABSOLUTELY GODDAMN NOTHING.  

If they wanted to monitor you, they already could have, even through your internet connections...its the fucking NSA...if they wanted you, you'd know by now.

[blind7125]

what part of: they are building a $1.9 billion dollar facility for this exact purpose at this moment do you not get? Of course corporations are not okay with this, the facility is not related to CISPA anyway. This means corporations have nothing to do with this.

[Vosenbergen]

blind7125, on 09 May 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

what part of: they are building a $1.9 billion dollar facility for this exact purpose at this moment do you not get? Of course corporations are not okay with this, the facility is not related to CISPA anyway. This means corporations have nothing to do with this.

I fully understand they're building a facility just for this, and in fact, they have more than 1!

What you don't seem to understand is that while the NSA is a far reaching government body, it is by no means as powerful as you think.  Yes, they can circumvent law...but in order to do that they have to break into about a thousand internet businesses, hundreds of network security firms, etc in order to even begin monitoring all of the information on the internet.  If they do that, then they have a huge international scandal about how the NSA broke into thousands of secure networks, or they have to ask these companies nicely, and they will be denied. (This has nothing to do with CISPA, this has to do with how Americans deal with their lives being laid bare, and then finding out about it...these companies would all have to answer for it, they'd point the finger at the NSA, and we'd have fucking riots on our hands)

Corporations have EVERYTHING to do with this mate...you keep losing focus of the point here.  The point is that the NSA is in no way capable of monitoring the internet in its entirety for the purposes of intelligence gathering...could they just store the entire communications of the internet? sure, why not...my point is wondering how the hell are they going to sort through all that data...it would take countless man-hours to even get 1 useful scrap of information, something they have much more effective ways of doing.  It would take months to find a piece of information that had passed through their databases last year.  No automated system is going to be able to keep up with that kind of work either.  And again, I point to things like hard drive failures, meaning that in order to maintain perfect parity and prevent data loss (and let's face it, they're probably going to set up a 5+1 RAID setup as it has the most data security)....Even if they use a really simple RAID1 single stripe parity, that's another yottabyte of drives they would need for storage...a 5+1 would be nearly 7 yottabytes...not happening.  Not to mention, how would they keep all that data secure...if they are gathering the entirety of the internet, constantly allowing traffic in, even with the best network security available it will be compromised.  That target is just too big for hackers not to shoot it.  The top network security companies in the world were hit the other week by a white hat group...imagine what could have happened if black hats did it; mass panic, huge amounts of data stolen and used illegally, and no way to stop it.

So yes, they're building a data monitoring facility...for the entire internet? no, probably not...for a wider search based on already filtered data from their other sources and for use as backup for the NSA? more likely than the crackpot scheme you've got going on in your head.

[09pop09]

O god. If the prison systems we not overflowing now they will be if this is correct there will be so many people arrested over stupid shit that this will be horrific

[Sirenfal]

This is a dumb thread. Go away.